Curse

Gun Pierson · Jan 20, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

I'm just wondering, if GW2 turns out to be vaporware, which I don't think so, (but who am I anyway, I can be as wrong like anybody else). What are you going to do? Wait for Diablo3 or switch to another MMO or another game? Continue playing GW1? Blow up your computer sorta speak and focus more on studies or your career, other free time interests?

If it doesn't turn out to be vaporware, will we hear you apologise for your wrong judgment? (silly I know in an online environment, but it takes a man to admit you're wrong) Or will you just forget about it and buy the game anyway (if it turns out to be good) and act like nothing happened?

How many of you come up with the argument of vaporware, just to try get some screenshots and whatnot for personal satisfaction? Will you be satisfied if they come up with some art and some alpha screens (which will be ugly imo), maybe beta screens, but still have to wait for two years or more? WIll it restore your faith in Anet in the meantime?

What's your 'game' plan?

Apollo Smile · Jan 20, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I plan on doing exactly what I am now. Just play what is fun and enjoy my gaming experiences. There is no reason for me to "move" to another MMO as I play many different games as it is. Aion and Diablo 3 are right next to GW2 on my waiting list.

Stuart444 · Jan 20, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

I plan on doing exactly what I am now. Just play what is fun and enjoy my gaming experiences. There is no reason for me to "move" to another MMO as I play many different games as it is. Aion and Diablo 3 are right next to GW2 on my waiting list.

That is one of the smartest comments I have ever seen on here ^_^

Arkantos · Jan 20, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

At this point, I can't say I'll be surprised that it's not going to be released. I'll continue to play GW as long as my friends are playing, and when they stop, I'll move on with my life. Regardless of whether GW2 is released or not, I'm probably going to start playing WoW with friends soon, and I'm getting D3 for sure.

If ANet actually releases some sort of proof that it's in development, I'm not going to apologize for anything. Why should I? It was announced in mid 2007, we were supposed to have beta in 2008. It's now 2009 and there's not even concept art. People saying it is vaporware aren't wrong, because ANet has showed us nothing to prove us otherwise. If it's a good game and my friends get it, then I'll get it too.

I'll be pleased when they finally show us something about GW2. A screenshot will prove that they're actually working on it, but I doubt we'll get that anytime soon. Even if they show us concept art, it doesn't prove the games being developed. But some concept art is much better than nothing. At this point, my 'faith in ANet' isn't going to be restored unless they show us quite a bit.

Gill Halendt · Jan 20, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If ANet actually releases some sort of proof that it's in development, I'm not going to apologize for anything. Why should I? It was announced in mid 2007, we were supposed to have beta in 2008. It's now 2009 and there's not even concept art. People saying it is vaporware aren't wrong, because ANet has showed us nothing to prove us otherwise. If it's a good game and my friends get it, then I'll get it too.

This.

Nothing to apologize for. GW2 is vaporware, by definition:

Quote:

Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product.

As Arkantos said, GW2 was announced in 2007 and was planned to have a beta in late 2008. Didn't happen. And it was announced before its development even started:

Quote:

As the team considered its situation – how to uncomplicate the current campaign model and add new, cool features without making the game any more Byzantine – what began as a brainstorm about Campaign 4 evolved into the blueprint for a completely new game.

“We kept changing the scope of what we were doing, until it became Guild Wars 2,” Flannum says with a shrug and a smile.

So, when Utopia was cancelled and then GW:EN and GW2 were announced, nothing concrete was there yet. Developers were still in the early, brainstorming phases of development, yet they made an announcement. 2009: we don't know anything more about this project. A textbook case of vaporware.

Please note that lots of software labeled as vaporware (like Half Life or Max Payne) ended up being released sooner or later, so claiming GW2 is vaporware doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all. It's just coming up so slow and obscurely that people are loosing interest.

To me, that's hardly something to worry about. I'll be playing GW as long as I have fun with it, and then I'll move on. I'll be playing whatever will entertain me in the future, be it GW2 or D3 or even something completely different.

Being a GW1 player now doesn't make me a future GW2 player anyway, vaporware or not.

Highlander Of Alba · Jan 20, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Well as far as myself is concerned

I have Aion on pre-order for a few months now

D3 is pipeline as played it since 09

But have to add this...

Lets look at development here 2 games they have at moment

Aion....plaync....posssible release...End of March

Blade and Soul...( Also known as Project M )..Plaync ...being developed as we speak and has video

released on its content.

So GW2...is back burner at moment till Aion is released

balamoor · Jan 20, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I look at it like this......there is still scads to do in GW, and AN has pretty much told us major content patches coming our way this year. That will keep me busy until it gets sorted out. If You Read Jeff Grubbs Blog he often mentions working on the story aspects...so no not Vaporware.

In any event I am torn I want GW2...but I will also be hella sad if AN decides to shut down GW after it launches.

jiggles · Jan 20, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by balamoor

If You Read Jeff Grubbs Blog he often mentions working on the story aspects

what does this prove?

Ill tell you what, it proves a man with a blog can claim to be doing absolutley anything. Until we actually get some PROOF like a picture, or a video, or cencept art, or a beta date, or an anything its vaporware.

Damian979 · Jan 20, 2009, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Vaporware is a relative term and in respects to GW2, it is vaporware. Supposedly it has been in development since the decision to make Eye of the North. Meaning they have had the length of time it took the GW1 team to produce EoTN and the duration of time since then to work on it. In this time they have not produced anything beyond their intentions for the game.

Aion has been in development for going on 3 years now. When it was announced they were able to show trailers and give details about the game. Though it's release date has been pushed back over and over, there is still a website with frequently updated dev notes and screen shots. We have an understanding of how the game is progressing and what is going into it. We know that it is finishing up it's closed beta in Korea and they are prepping it for open beta soon. We have seen an actual game being developed.

Show me one screen shot, one trailer, one piece of concept art, hell even one dev update on the progress of GW2 and I will consider it more than vaporware. Until then it doesn't exist.

Daesu · Jan 20, 2009, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

As Arkantos said, GW2 was announced in 2007 and was planned to have a beta in late 2008. Didn't happen. And it was announced before its development even started:

From that definition then GW2 is NOT a vaporware because they didnt announce that it would be released in late 2008, they only planned to have a beta in late 2008. Furthermore, late 2008 and current date is not considered well exceeded either.

I am glad GW2 is coming out later as it gives me more time to farm up my titles since I hardly have the time to play all my 16 characters. I am also glad they are taking their time to fix the bugs so that we will have a higher quality beta, I dont want a beta that crashes every 5 minutes or so.

-rightuos- · Jan 20, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

For now I believe GW2 to be a myth. One only needs to do small bit of searching to see that parent developer ncsoft is teetering on implosion, from layoffs, 50% drop in profits, to reports of bad decisions made causing drama in the upper ranks. Most of those layoff's were in customer support (explains the lousy customer support for GW). Ncsoft appears to be putting everything on the back burner and all of its efforts into Aion.

News stories like this don't help me to believe GW2 will make it.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/NCsof...es-93341.shtml

If Aion makes a large impact only then will I put any hopes into GW2.

For the time being though, I have been playing EVE Online, with sprinkles of GW in between. I have finished everything in GW except for a few grind titles that I work on while helping friends out. I will definitely check out Diablo 3 but even that seems to be getting shoved into 2010, so I dunno, I still have a bunch of games on the shelf I have accumulated over the last couple years that I was addicted to GW so maybe I'll dust those off and give them a go.

Shadowmoon · Jan 20, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Like mentioned before, people claiming it is vaporware is because of the action of Anet already, not if gw2 will or will not come out. Allot of products consider vaporware do come out. Hell alot of people claim gmail is vaporware because its a "beta", and not a release, yet millions of people use it:P.
People consider it vaporware because it was hyped before GW:EN to sell more copies because it was the only way to save achievements from gw1, and now post-GW:EN, there is no information at all. I claim that it was to create a demand for something that wouldn't normally be there, in this case, a transfer mechanism to game that didn't exist at the time and still shows no sign of existing.

Gill Halendt · Jan 20, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

From that definition then GW2 is NOT a vaporware because they didnt announce that it would be released in late 2008, they only planned to have a beta in late 2008. Furthermore, late 2008 and current date is not considered well exceeded either.

For what we know (nothing), development hasn't gone any further since the announcement in 2007. We didn't know anything way back then, we don't know anything now. New date for the beta is "probably in 2010", which is more than a year late than what was planned. GW2 was meant to be released sometimes in 2009 and now the beta has been postponed to "probably next year", so they ARE well exceeding the period of development.

Anyway, it's their legitimate choice not to release any info now. What people would make of it it's a whole different story tough. I don't blame Anet for developing the game secretly, but I don't blame people who're getting skeptical about it either.

What I can say is that I would have enjoyed Utopia much more than this over-hyped and ultra-obscure thing that keeps on being postponed.

Daesu · Jan 20, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

People consider it vaporware because it was hyped before GW:EN to sell more copies because it was the only way to save achievements from gw1, and now post-GW:EN, there is no information at all.

No information doesn't imply vaporware. You are trying to change the official definition of vaporware just to suit your argument. There is nothing in the definition of vaporware that even imply the release of information before the product ships.

Quote:

Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

For what we know (nothing), development hasn't gone any further since the announcement in 2007. We didn't know anything way back then, we don't know anything now. New date for the beta is "probably in 2010", which is more than a year late than what was planned. GW2 was meant to be released sometimes in 2009 and now the beta has been postponed to "probably next year", so they ARE well exceeding the period of development.

If you know nothing, then you wouldn't even know that development hasn't gone any further also, would you?

For all you know, the beta may even be 99% done by now. Where did they say the new date for the beta is in 2010? According to their official wiki, the game is planned to be released (not beta) in late 2009 or early 2010.

Quote:

Beta testing was originally set for late 2008, but has since been postponed to a date closer to the game's release. The game is thought to be released in late 2009 or early 2010; however, this is yet to be officially announced. If you would like more information on the Guild Wars 2 beta testing and/or the game's release, please see the Guild Wars 2 FAQ page.

People are so impatient...

Gill Halendt · Jan 20, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

No information doesn't imply vaporware. You are trying to change the official definition of vaporware just to suit your argument. There is nothing in the definition of vaporware that even imply the release of information before the product ships.

Frome the very same article on Wikipedia:

Quote:

Products with unspecified release dates or long development times that outwardly demonstrate regular, verifiable progress in production are not normally labelled vaporware.

GW2 has unspecified release dates and long development times, but no demonstrate progress in production.

That's it.

Personally, I think asking for more infos is pointless. I never felt the need to know anything more about GW2. But since the term "vaporware" was used by me first in the other thread, I just wanted to point out why I did it.

GW2 is vaporware. Period. By definition.

That doesn't imply it's not undergoing development. At all.

Shadowmoon · Jan 20, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

The use of vaporware as an anticompetitive practices, which the same wiki article defines as:
The marketing angle to "releasing" vaporware can be two-fold. On one hand the intention is to create the demand for a feature or product which did not previously exist in the market.
And i claim that feature was the HoM, which there wouldn't have been a demand for if there was no gw2 hype prior to GWEN.

Daesu · Jan 20, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

GW2 has unspecified release dates and long development times, but no demonstrate progress in production.

That's it.

Except that they DID announce their planned release date to be late 2009 or early 2010 which again defeats that argument.

I agree it doesn't have much information being released but that doesn't necessarily imply it must be vaporware.

Quote:

The marketing angle to "releasing" vaporware can be two-fold. On one hand the intention is to create the demand for a feature or product which did not previously exist in the market.
And i claim that feature was the HoM, which there wouldn't have been a demand for if there was no gw2 hype prior to GWEN.

The "purpose" of X does not imply the "definition" of X. Advertising also has the intention to create the demand for a feature, so that means all advertised products you see on your TV are vaporware?

Highlander Of Alba · Jan 20, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Just have to add this as a quote from Damian 979

Aion has been in development for going on 3 years now. When it was announced they were able to show trailers and give details about the game. Though it's release date has been pushed back over and over, there is still a website with frequently updated dev notes and screen shots. We have an understanding of how the game is progressing and what is going into it. We know that it is finishing up it's closed beta in Korea and they are prepping it for open beta soon. We have seen an actual game being developed.

...........................................

Totaly incorrect as

Aion was released in November Live,,not Closed Beta and has won best game in Korea 2008

http://eu.aiononline.com/en/

Its heading for China as we speak then its coming to EU/NA after its live launch date there

Abedeus · Jan 20, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

If GW2 comes out, nobody will give a crap.

RTS players will have Starcraft 2, Demigod and Dawn of War 2, Hack and Slash players will have Diablo 3, MMO players will have... Star Wars MMO, Aion, Blade and Soul.

A.Net made few mistakes.

1. Telling players (anyone playing 3+ years will remember this) that there will be new add-on or chapter every 6 months.
2. Announcing GW2 without anything.
3. 2-year old silence, no screenshots or what-so-ever.

Hell, even that new Star Wars MMO that is coming out had a trailer when they announced it. Diablo 3 had a gameplay video, concept arts, in-game screenshots, fansite materials, wallpapers, a lot about the lore and more.

Gill Halendt · Jan 20, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Except that they DID announce their planned release date to be late 2009 or early 2010 which again defeats that argument.

It's no way planned, it's their current estimated target release date, which could be subjected to change again in the future. As for now, I won't hold my breath about this.

And yes, no information (expecially when no information means you have absolutely NOTHING, not even a logo, a basic artwork or the full title of the game) DOES imply vaporware, think of the examples mentioned before, such as Max Payne or Half Life, both labelled as vaporware because of the delays and lack of information during their development, until proven real on release. It just doesn't imply the development halted, but people are now reasonably getting skeptical about it.